There are new Hjers who don't know Mary and old HJers who don't know her either. But clearly opinions about Mary are going to remain a festering sore on HJ until someone clears them up.

Mary is my friend. She's a REAL friend, a person........not a cyber-stranger. Mary was the moderator and administrator on HJ for several years before auto-moderation was introduced.

She spent many many hours on line day after day after day, ensuring that the site ran smoothly, so that the participants' posts got out there with minimum delay. She got to know many of the posters as real people and helped them to the best of their ability. She did ALL of this unpaid and largely unthanked.

Without Mary, HJ would not have turned into the much visited and popular site that it is today.

Some people have had issues with the fact that Mary was also a participant, particularly if they didn't agree with her. Mary sometimes pulled posts which were abusive towards individuals, but she never ONCE pulled a post which was insulting towards her!

Someone mentioned on another current thread that Mary, suddenly reappeared from exile, every time I mentioned her. This is probably true. On a number of occasions I have begged her to come back and defend herself. I have emails to prove it. I regret, deeply having put her through that. I should have known better!

Mary is a human being with feelings and having put so much time and effort in HJ, obviously she feels deeply hurt and personally attacked by the unceasing criticism which continues, even in her absence.

Instead of allowing this to fester on, I feel that we should clear the air, so that the site can move forward.

Feel free to contribute, subject to the TOS.

D J Sam, the respect is mutual, but we'll have to agree to disagree.

It is like shaking a wasps nest, but quite frankly, I'm a bit tired of the buzzing in the back ground.

I receive quite a few emails about Mary from different HJers, who find the situation distressing and/or annoying. Most of them are reluctant to post on Hj for fear of being attacked. Some of them love and miss Mary and some of them really dislike her. Their choice.

I'd just like people to get things out into the open..............if no-one wants to that's also fine.

But perhaps the people who do want to keep sniping at Mary will desist from doing so in future, having avoided this invitation to do so?

Satine, the reason that I have brought up private emails is that they ARE relevant.

It IS important that people out there are unhappy about Mary being insulted and that they don't feel able to say so on HJ. That's precisely my point.

I understand your argument some time back, that this is just a forum and that people shouldn't take things personally, but I don't agree with it.

There should be space on HJ for people who DO take things personally, who DO wear their hearts on their sleeves, who DO choose to post as their real selves, rather than a persona.

Or am I wrong?

Should HJ be the exclusive territory of the thick- skinned and anonymous? Those who can take a blow and come back unbruised and ready for the next round.

I feel that too many sensitive and "nice" people are being alienated.

The repeated insults to Mary (and please don't ask me to quote them?) do actually make people think twice about posting.

Firstly, I still don't see what you are aiming to achieve with this thread? Except to get people to post “we love you Mary, come back”? If they are unhappy, why email you? You don't run the site. You don't own it. What can you possibly do about it? If they really had an issue they would take it up with Izak. I think its way too easy to hide behind “I'm scared”, sending private mails to sympathetic ears instead of taking responsibility for what you want.

Secondly, I'm getting tired of the whole site being brought to a standstill when there is a perceived insult made towards Mary. If Mary is insulted, Izak can pull the post or Mary can defend herself. Why must the whole site be involved ALL the time.

There should be space on HJ for people who DO take things personally, who DO wear their hearts on their sleeves, who DO choose to post as their real selves, rather than a persona.

There is a place for them here... if they choose to be here. If they can post in an adult, sensible manner and accept that not everyone here is alike (more or less the same kind of respect most people give everyone else here) then they will do JUST fine. There are tons of people posting here who have NO problem whatsoever to post. Why must they go on their knees and beg and plead and roll out the red carpet for a select few who don't even contribute??

The repeated insults to Mary (and please don't ask me to quote them?) do actually make people think twice about posting.

I haven't read any insults to Mary lately. But you can't mention the name without someone jumping on their pony shouting “insult!”. In the time I've known Mary, she's given more than her fair share of what she got. You never defended the recipients of her attacks. So if people don't like Mary and “insult” her then you should ask yourself 'why'? So I agree with you, can we let the Mary issue rest? Please. Its getting tiresome and boring.

Personally, since I joined, I found most of Mary's posts to be irrelevant, and non-factual. I also find them rather aggressive and offensive if you do not agree with her or are not her friend. She advocates a lot of what could be good things for horses if done correctly, but if you question her methods, ask for clarification or feel that they are not correct she really gets her oar in.

While I am sure she could be a really good contributor to the forum I have not seen her add any value in the approximate seven months that I have been here. In fact, I have only noticed that the fights and nastiness increase when she is posting. If she could post and substantiate and back up her suggestions and debate rather than argue and get personal (regardless if she feels attacked or not) she would bring a very good perspective on many of the discussions. Perhaps she responds the way she does due to the history of the site, but if you expect every one else to forgive and forget then the same would have to apply to her.

Elastic, I totally agree that the TOS should apply to everyone on HJ and although Mary may have annoyed you, she has not ever contravened them to my knowledge.

Mary has posted very infrequently in the last seven months and there have been several vicious threads during this period in which she has not participated at all, a fact which several other HJers have commented on.

I note for the record, that there was no objection to the title of jnp's thread entitled "Where is Mary" the other day. (although it was eventually pulled for other reasons).

Should one assume therefore, that if an "anti-Mary" person posts a thread asking this question, their motivation is above suspicion?

Satine, I said "to the best of my knowledge" and I could construe by the same token, that your saying "that is blatantly untrue" implies that I am a liar, but I'm sure that that was not your intention?

I was not aware that Mary had called you "a liar" or "a coward". Was her post reported and pulled? If not why not.? That's not acceptable in terms of the TOS regardless of who the poster is.

I have no problem with people rehashing past hurts and insults as long as everyone can do it and we can clear the air once and for all?

Jenny why on earth does Mary insist on disappearing so melodramatically every couple of months? I truly can't understand it, and I feel it is very divisive.

Personally I think she is very welcome on HJ and has a valid contribution to make, but perhaps should be less oversensitive when someone disagrees with her or a method she uses.

Jenny, she most definately has disobeyed the TOS buy getting personal and insulting. Forget about what she has done to anyone else, and although she has apologised and I have accepted and understand why it all happened and I have in fact moved on I must point out that she has called me a couple of names. I believe that is not allowed. I am not the only person that can point out where she has broken the TOS. I am sure if you invite people to they will be able to give plenty of examples (probably by links to threads). What is important is that one recognises their mistakes and learns from them. By her insistance, and your support thereof, that she has never contravened the TOS you highlite that she has not seen the error of her ways and will therefore not change.

If she will not change and whenever she is participating or being discussed the nastiness and fighting increases then I feel that, regardless of how much she has to add, we might be better off without her contributions. But, should she be able to contribute without causeing conflict it would be lovely to have her input.

Satine, I don't think that we should re-visit the thread in which you were insulted. You may wish to re-read it yourself before commenting, however.

The thread was called "I have officially lost respect".

It's clearly a thread that caused a lot of pain to many people, apart from you and it may be cathartic to air it?