Discussion forum
The Monty's and the Parelli's (Horse talk)
By CC - 1.5 months ago
Ive been thinking about all the bad press the Monty's and Parelli's of the world have been getting lately and this is what I think ? Working with animals is based on energy, feeling and timing and our reactions can be entirely appropriate or completely inappropriate, depending on when and how we execute the instruction. The difficulty is these people who have commercialized certain methods or theories have a skill in those very important aspects. But feeling and timing is something that one is either talented enough to have been born with or not, in which case it takes years to develop, if ever. These animal communicators teach their methods to such a wide variety of people and this I believe is when the technique has the potential to become dangerous. We all operate at slightly different energy levels, from the nervous jittery person to the calm, laid back person. One can not and should not teach the same method or technique to every person – it's not a one size fits all kind of thing ! One has to take these personality traits into complete consideration before working with animals. Asking the hyper active ADD person to do the “porcupine” game can be a very hectic high energy experience for the horse resulting in a stressed animal. Whereas ask the laid back gentle person to do it and you might find the horse suddenly becomes more responsive. I have seen some great results from these animal communicators and some not so great results but I believe each has had a significant role to play in broadening many people's understanding of horses in general. I also think - they're only human.
The Monty's and the Parelli's (Horse talk)
By Theus - 1.5 months ago
You have a very sober take on the matter. The problem is the commercialization of everything. Real horsemanship is not confined or reduced to a name or trade mark. It is developed over years and the learning continues. One can learn much by using the material from these courses, but it is not going to make you a horseman. One cannot possibly say that a certain trainer or clinician's method is good or bad depending on how someone who only plays with one horse has interpreted their own results.
The Monty's and the Parelli's (Horse talk)
By Jane - 1.5 months ago
I think the sign of a truly skilled practitioner in any field is to be able to take what works from a range of theories and to use it practically. The minute one blindly follows the "teachings" of single point of view without applying one's own thoughts and experience the danger of fanaticism rears its head.
The Monty's and the Parelli's (Horse talk)
By Satine - 1.5 months ago
CC, I would agree with you if the disturbing footage on youtube was made by a Parelli follower who didn't quite 'get' what the man was teaching. Unfortunately the videos of abuse was of Parelli himself - a long with his wife.
These are the methods they advocate. It has nothing to do with energy levels, or feel, or timing. They advocate beating a horse in the face. They advocate chasing and whipping a half blind horse. They advocate tying a horse's leg up, making it impossible for the horse to flee a very scary situation, while they twitch him, tie his head down and force a bridle on him.
This has nothing to do with understanding. I understand very well what they advocate, and I think its disgusting.
The Monty's and the Parelli's (Horse talk)
By Zeva - 1.5 months ago
sjoei people , i think some people just losses there passion for horse the moment the make to much money or fame out of it its like laughing at a horse for the money and i suppose it can make you blind and do silly stuff just to keep your name high , i think the way that they advocate all the hitting in the face etc they got frastrated with the horse because the forgot how to listen , and feel the energy and timing , i agree with all of you, i think if one does work with horses etc i think one should keep it to yourself , that way it remains your thing . any one can train work with a horse , it`s about how you handle it and the responsiveness , i never ever you beat a dog or a horse to get sumthing out of it it not worthwhile
c.r.e.a.m thats what rules us then we get blind
The Monty's and the Parelli's (Horse talk)
By CC - 1.5 months ago
Satine – I think in that moment, in front of the crowds, when it was clearly not going as planned, Parelli probably learned one of his biggest lessons ? - we hope. Horses always keep you humble. Unfortunately the man has in many ways lost the freedom to be his own horseman. He is the method. Money and status and ego have crept in and it must be tough been a Parelli at the moment ? I have always thought if you think you have reached the destination with horses, there will always be a horse out there to prove you wrong ! I can not for one minute say with absolute certainty that the methods and techniques I use today are going to be the same in a year or even 6 months time. I think there is something to learn from all of these horseman. I might not agree with some of the methods they use but I'm still grateful to them for what they have taught me. At the end of the day they are human and I don't expect them to be perfect all the time. I once asked my future instructor how many mistakes she had made with horses in her lifetime, she replied plenty, I said perfect, want to be my teacher ? :)
The Monty's and the Parelli's (Horse talk)
By CC - 1.5 months ago
Theus - I'm curious to know why you said I have a very sober take on the matter. What do you mean ?
The Monty's and the Parelli's (Horse talk)
By jenny-c - 1.5 months ago
CC, I agree with most of what you said in your OP.
I do however see Satine's point of view in this and I really think that once a method becomes commercialised, sadly other things enter into the equation.
If a trainer is performing for a paying audience, he simply has to achieve his objective or else he will loose credibility.
I don't think that Monty Roberts has ever crossed the line into full-on abuse the way that the Parelli's have though.
In a situation like that... why couldn't he just say "You know what people..... our strategies aren't working here. Let's give the horse a break and re-think things."
That's certainly what I would I would have done.....but then I wouldn't charge people to watch me training ;)
The Monty's and the Parelli's (Horse talk)
By sabby - 1.5 months ago
I've seen Monty Work with horses when I worked overseas.
He really has a gift, I can't explain it but I knew the difficult horses he worked with and after a morning session with him at the stalls those horses responded much better in their training and some even had improved in their behaviour.
There will always be "haters" out there and the thing is you need a huge amount of confidence to work on the scale these men do (some call it ego and not confidence) Either way, they have fixed many horses along the way. Helped many tourbled animals understand what their humans wanted from them.
As for the money making, why not. These men can't work for free. Obviously with horses you can never be an expert merely just knowledgable and still learning.
The Monty's and the Parelli's (Horse talk)
By Dani - 1.5 months ago
I think the bottom line is not to settle with just one method of training and yes I agree the Parelli's are just showmen out there pure and simply for the bucks. I have seen people using their methods with disastrous results, but they do it anyway because His Highness Parelli does it that way.
The last show we were at, we watched as someone tried to load their horse into the trailer using the shake shake snap halter method (I actually don't even know what it's called) it's the same method they were using for the partially blind horse in that video we saw recently? After 30 minutes of using this method they eventually lost their temper and started screaming, yelling and hitting the horse to get him to load. This whole scenario was so distressing to watch. The horse eventually reared, got loose and preceded to career around the show grounds - it took them about an hour to catch the horse and about 3 hours to load him.
I've taught my horses to load with patience, praise and lots of carrots, funny, I have yet to read a book or see the experts that advocate this method :p Max now walks in on his own when I give him a hand signal.
The Monty's and the Parelli's (Horse talk)
By jenny-c - 1.5 months ago
Dani, you've hit the nail on the head.
IMO a trainer should understand multiple approaches (and then some) and be able to think on the spot about what the HORSE needs, not what's good for the trainer's ego.
I must say, I've never seen, heard or read about Monty Roberts putting his ego ahead of horse welfare...but I stand to be corrected on that.
It IS about the horse after all?
Well done with what you've achieved, a flexible approach is always best!
The Monty's and the Parelli's (Horse talk)
By CC - 1.5 months ago
Jenny C – I'm not here trying to punt these guys I'm simply trying to see it from all the angles. It's obvious that ego and commercialism has become a factor. If you read my posts you will see that I have actually said this already. I watched the old Parelli videos a few years back and found some of their methods quite useful – I even wormed my filly using the “friendly game” after she refused point blank. In a few minutes I gently slipped the syringe in her mouth with ease. I know you can all jump up and down and say that type of horse knowledge has been around forever but not for me. In the past if a horse gave me a problem I'd simply restrain it further. So maybe the Parelli's have simply taken this all a bit to far. I agree, their recent shenanigans are questionable.
The Monty's and the Parelli's (Horse talk)
By Marmari - 1.5 months ago
Press, popularity and loosing focus...unfortunately these are thins that goes with being on the main stage of the horse world. Humility and being grateful that these awesome animals allows us to master them...become our friends and trust us with their lives.
When you work with children or horses i have learnt one thing...the moment you think you are on top of the world, it takes a weird unexpected turn and if you dont hold on you have a GOOD chance to be shot into outer space. I think it's very unfair to be judgmental of people like these guys - but on the other hand it's due to their own error. The more you seek the limelight the bigger your chances of getting crucified by the crowds. On the other hand how many people and horses has been helped by the Perelli's and then how many of us has an off day every now and then? Dont get me wrong i am not a Perelli FAN...i prefer Monty's ways and his personality... have worked in the US and am not a fan of the bigger better ways of the Americans. Thing is is it right to crucify someone for one mistake - how many of us has made the same errors? only thing is there might not have been a camera close by...
Wish we could get back where we respect each other and the animals entrusted to us...once we have mutual respect...we will understand each other better, care more about each others well being and that of our animals - then we can become a team working together as friends and a bond of mutual trust will develop.
The Monty's and the Parelli's (Horse talk)
By CC - 1.5 months ago
Great post Marmari :)
Apparently there is just as much controvercy surrounding "The Dog Whisperer" many people are trying to ban his show in the States.
The Monty's and the Parelli's (Horse talk)
By Tarryn - 1.5 months ago
CC, although only human and having the right to make mistakes, Pat and Linda have never admitted this and have defended their actions as their method that works. My issue is at no point when "taken on" about the video footage with the difficult cases did they admit that they may have been under pressure to "perform" and could have handled the situation better, they both stand by what they did 100%.
In both the videos I have seen, I saw what I consider abuse and if this is then the Parelli method then I in no way, shape or form consider it horsemanship, never mind a form that serves for the betterment of the horse.
I also agree though that it is a matter of opinion because as you say, so many are taking on Cesar Millan and trying to stop his show being publically viewed and I think he is great.
I for one am glad that I got to witness the Parelli's in action as it confirmed that I do not wish to follow the Parelli method and have myself a "robot horse".
The Monty's and the Parelli's (Horse talk)
By Willow - 1.5 months ago
I do kind of agree with Theus that a great horseman is a lifetime in the making...he never stops learning but his experience tells him how to recognise wrong from right. Some great horsemen learned from observation of their teachers and some from just being around horses and learning what makes them tick.
I'm also not a huge fan of the Parellis, not because of the recent video, but I just didn't like their methods. They didn't feel right to me. That is not to say the essence of their method isn't right, its just not for everybody. I like simplicity when dealing with horses and if you have to buy special equipment and sign up for special courses, it reeks of desperation for me. If you can achieve a balanced horse by following some clear, intelligent thinking and simple application,then you have me at 'Hello'. I like Cesar Millan as well, people don't like his methods because they never bothered to understand them and they are easy to misinterpret. Behind every success story is a real human being with real human flaws.
The Monty's and the Parelli's (Horse talk)
By Chrisco - 1.5 months ago
The Queen likes Monty and his methods are used by the household cavalry so he's gotta be good because she knows more than anybody else :)
The Monty's and the Parelli's (Horse talk)
By CC - 1.5 months ago
My OP was about the dangers surrounding animal communicators on an energy level. There are obviously lots of of other problematic issues. I find it interesting how we all pretty much agree on this topic :) I don't think this would have been the case a few years back ? Food for thought.
The Monty's and the Parelli's (Horse talk)
By Theus - 1.5 months ago
Dear CC
I used the word Sober because you seem to have a very open and objective view whereas many of the posts I have read have been emotionally charged and not very constructive.
Your post at the beginning of this thread has so much quality of perspective. It was a compliment.
The Monty's and the Parelli's (Horse talk)
By seabreeze - 1 months ago
I am no expert in any field, but I can say one thing that every horse person should follow - STEAL WITH YOUR EYES. Never allow anyone to force or coax you into a certain method, do what you believe, what you see infront of you cannot lie...